Homeschool Alumni and Saxon Math: Collected Interviews

I recently wrote an article on why homeschooled children and homeschool alumni have strong, often negative, feelings about John Saxon’s math curriculum, Saxon Math. Saxon, once dubbed “the angry man of mathematics” and “the feisty educator who wanted math taught his way,” had a traditional, anachronistic approach to math. His approach became wildly popular in homeschooling circles. Mary Pride, a Quiverfull advocate and the editor of Practical Homeschooling, called his curriculum “the best math program ever made available to home schoolers.”

While homeschool leaders and homeschooling parents loved Saxon, homeschooled children and homeschool alumni felt and feel very differently. To better understand my own experience of learning math from Saxon’s textbooks as well as the experiences of my homeschooled peers, I interviewed seventeen homeschool alumni about Saxon Math. While I could not include everyone’s answers in my article summarizing Saxon and his impact on homeschooling, I thought all the answers were important. So, I am creating this companion piece to include more of the answers.

The homeschool alumni that I interviewed included the following:

Anna 1, librarian, she/her; homeschooled kindergarten through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for 3 or 4 years, reaching Algebra 1

Anna 2, trading card game appraiser, she/her; homeschooled for 7 years, from 6th through 12th grade, and used Saxon for 3 years, going through Algebra 1/2, Algebra 1 and Algebra 2

Bethany Sparkle, social worker, they/them; homeschooled from kindergarten through age 17 and used Saxon Math for 3rd grade through Algebra 1

Brad Batton, mechanical engineer, he/him; homeschooled kindergarten through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for 4 of those years

Christi R., health writer, she/her; homeschooled from kindergarten through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for 4 of those years

D.L. Mayfield, writer and podcaster, they/them; homeschooled from kindergarten through 11th grade and used Saxon Math for 3 of those years

Emily, graduate student studying clinical mental health counseling to become a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist/Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor, she/her; homeschooled kindergarten through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for that entire time

Greta LaFore, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Gonzaga University, she/her; homeschooled 1st through 10th grade and used Saxon Math from 1st grade through Algebra 2

Isaac Woelfel, Seismic Field Technician for the Oklahoma Geological Survey, he/him; homeschooled from 2nd through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for 8 of those years

Jael, medical professional, she/her; homeschooled for 7 years and used Saxon “for 5 years until I tested out of it into community college-level calculus”

Lana, nonprofit admin, she/her; homeschooled for 8 years starting in 5th grade and used Saxon for those 8 years

Lauren, medical billing assistant, she/her; homeschooled kindergarten through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for 6 or 7 years, reaching Algebra 1

Lina McCormick-Morin, Deputy Director of the Southern California College Attainment Network, she/her; homeschooled from 1st through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for 6 of those years

Luke Moughon, engineer, he/him; homeschooled from kindergarten through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for his 4 years of high school

Tim, operations executive for a large regional construction and real estate development firm in Texas, he/him; homeschooled “for grades 6 and 7, and started 8th grade, but took a stand with my parents that I wanted and needed to go to public school, so I transferred to a public school in 8th”; used Saxon Math for around 2 years

William Sarris, voice actor and video producer, he/him; homeschooled kindergarten through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for his 4 years of high school

Wyn, currently unemployed, he/they; homeschooled kindergarten through 12th grade and used Saxon Math for 4 of those years

The interview questions and answers follow:

At any point while you used Saxon Math, did your parent or caregiver have you teach and/or grade yourself?

Wyn: My mom graded the first 2 books but the later ones I was grading myself.

William: I distinctly remember grading myself. I also remember that some of the books had the answers for every other question in the back of the student book. I don’t really recall getting much “teaching” after I got into middle and high school. A lot of it was, “Here’s the book, do the lesson, do the homework, grade yourself, and ask me if you have questions.”

Brad: I was asked to essentially teach myself through my entire experience with Saxon—reading the material on my own and also completing the assignments. My mom graded my work until midway through high school. But after my younger siblings started 1st grade, I was responsible for my own grading.

Bethany: My mother’s approach to teaching most things was pretty hands off, but we definitely struggled with math. My mother was quite good at math and it all made sense to her, but she wasn’t much of a teacher… By the time I got to algebra I was quite lost. My main memory is of sitting at the table crying with my Algebra 1 book while my mother screamed at me for “pretending to be stupid.” I believe she generally had me go through the problems myself and then come to her to show I could do it. If I couldn’t, she would try to show me and quickly get angry at me. I never did learn algebra.

Isaac: My mother (my teacher) started having major depressive episodes when I was about 10-12 years old, so that started a trend of teaching and grading myself from then on. 

D.L.: I had to teach myself. I don’t have an excellent memory of those years, but I do remember being told to check my work at the back of the textbook (which I believe had the correct answers for every other question). I felt really frustrated that I could check and see if I was right or wrong but there was no explanation or real help if I was wrong. I was definitely responsible for grading myself and that was the worst part.

Christi: Yes, 99% of the time. That students could teach themselves was the selling point of the curriculum for my parents.

Luke: I taught myself the whole time. I only graded myself the last year (for calculus). If I had a question, I could ask my dad in the evening when he returned from work. For the most part, I was expected to resolve questions myself. If I had had the answer key, I might have peeked.

Lina: Yes, most of my high school learning through Saxon Math consisted of reading the textbook by myself and then doing the assigned homework and tests. I always graded myself with the test key in the back of each book, so it was incredibly easy to never do the actual work.  

Tim: Yes, I was asked to grade myself. My mom was a housekeeper for other families and I had to go to her jobs with her and do my curriculum while she cleaned. Prior to Saxon, I used Accelerated Christian Education in a private school—which was entirely self-graded.

Emily: Math was actually the only subject area where I wasn’t largely self-taught beyond middle school. My mom would typically review the daily math lesson by herself before sitting down to teach it to me. However, I would typically grade my own work using the answer key as I went along.

Greta: Occasionally I could ask a question to my mother about something I didn’t understand, but it was a lottery if that question would be met with anger and snapping, so I generally kept my confusion to myself. I was in charge of grading myself beginning in the Algebra 1/2 year. It took me several years to progress through Algebra 1/2 and Algebra 2 because I confessed to cheating while grading myself and my parents had me redo the textbooks. My mother, it’s important to mention, was diagnosed with an illness they believed to be terminal at that point in time, so I was also caring for a younger sibling full time while homeschooling myself and keeping the house running with my siblings during that season. Someone asked my parents if they should enroll us in school to deal with this problem while my mom was out of the picture, but my parents refused and put the burden of that choice on their kids while their kids tried to school themselves and take care of each other.

Lauren: Yes, and it was a DISASTER because I cheated for most of my 8th grade year and had to retake it!

Anna 1: I probably have something like dyscalculia but have never been diagnosed. My math issues were not helped by having to teach myself, which happened the entire time. I was given the student book and the teacher book. I could go to my parents if I had questions about concepts, but I needed to have tried multiple times on my own first. I always graded my own work. I did eventually resort to writing down the correct answers and trying to work out how they got that answer in an attempt to not fail math or disappoint my parents.

Anna 2: Yes, I would say I used the books and answer keys independently 90% of the time.

Jael: I had to teach myself the whole time. Also grade myself. I’m in awe that I passed the tests at community college to move up a few levels and became a math major.

Lana: Yes—all years. No parent offered help at any point.

Did you like anything about Saxon Math?

Wyn: Absolutely nothing.

William: I sort of remember thinking the word problems were kind of fun in the earlier grades, but… math quickly became something I just wanted to get through as fast as possible so I could read a book. So, as far as liking anything specific, I don’t remember.

Brad: Having previously used Abeka’s math curriculum, I really liked Saxon Math. I was better able to understand the individual concepts as they were explained. I didn’t have to ask my Mom for help as often once we switched to Saxon. It was also presented in a way that was closer to my college studies, so I believe that was helpful in preparation.

Bethany: Not that I recall, but I also didn’t really like anything about math. As an adult with patient teachers I have realized I am maybe not actually bad at math so much as that my mom was bad at teaching… but I still border on a panic attack if I see an algebra formula I’m expected to do.

Isaac: I liked that it had numerous (and often repetitive) practice problems, which could serve to reinforce understanding of the material. I can learn well through repetition, so that aspect was good for me.

D.L.: I was told it was really “good” math and the fact that I could do it without any adult help made me feel smart… I also liked that I could rush through it and do whatever else I wanted with the rest of my day—which was generally how I felt about homeschooling.

Christi: No.

Luke: I think it taught me the basics well. Its pedagogical strategy appeared to lead with rote repetition, with understanding emerging gradually. This seemed to work for me—mostly because I did not feel capable of understanding the concepts at the outset.

Lina: No.

Tim: Not that I recall.

Emily: I liked the repetitive nature of the content in that it provided plenty of practice for each concept over time. For example, after learning a concept, a student would be given related problems across the course of several sessions, rather than having related problems only contained in that lesson.

Greta: Saxon Math convinced me that I was stupid very quickly. The instructions were direct and to the point, but written with the mind of an adult and not the mind of an educator. So they explained the math concepts in a way that made sense to some people, I’m sure, but not to a child. I vividly remember their textbooks being the receptacle of hours of tears when my mom would ask me why I just didn’t get “it,” with “it” being the topic of the day… People today know me as a go getter and in some ways I attribute that indirectly to Saxon, not because of what it did for me that was good, but because it taught me young that people who score low on math should see themselves as difficult, lazy, and bad, and I’ve spent my life determined not to feel that way again.

Lauren: Meh, it was forgettable and I didn’t understand it.

Anna 1: When we first got Saxon Math, I liked how they explained some of the basic concepts—as opposed to my other textbooks like Math-U-See, which had no written explanation of concepts, only a basic video to watch.

Anna 2: The amount of work required each day seemed short at first glance (usually one page).

Jael: I actually think Saxon math taught me very well. It was nice to go at my own pace.

Lana: I actually thought it was structured in a way that allowed me to follow along on my own, perhaps easier than other math textbooks I had in 2nd and 3rd grade. I liked the repetition in the exercises, it let me build upon concepts as I learned them.

Did you dislike anything about Saxon Math?

Wyn: I have severe Dyscalculia which wasn’t caught until college. So, when I couldn’t progress past Book 4/5 by age 15, we just gave up and that was it for math. 

I was always confused by how they would set problems up. I also found so many errors in the word problems (English errors, not math ones) that I’d get distracted correcting those instead of understanding the question. My biggest fights with my mom as an early teen were all Saxon-related. She didn’t understand that I simply couldn’t do the problems and wasn’t being lazy.

William: As I went through the books, I really started to get lost. I distinctly remember not understanding algebra, though geometry made more sense. The addition of letters into equations threw me and there wasn’t enough review (or I didn’t do it or didn’t ask about it) to allow me to understand it. I just remember not liking math and I’m pretty sure Saxon was a big part of that.

Brad: Sometimes early on I felt like concepts were taught out of order. I would have to look ahead several lessons in order to understand something in the current lesson. I don’t know if this was because I didn’t receive an actual lecture from a teacher or possibly switching curriculum part way through middle school. 

Bethany: Looking at the textbooks now, they are really dry and just like… so many problems per page! I doubt it helped with my struggles, but I also doubt I stood much of a chance of learning better in the situation I was in.

Isaac: It lacked conceptual explanation. It wasn’t until I took math in college that I realized how much Saxon Math focused on memorization, rather than conceptual understanding. So, while I liked that Saxon Math (at times) had a focus on drill and practice, if I was having an issue with conceptualizing it, this just led to more frustration and disinterest. It also used a spiral method, where concepts are revisited throughout the curriculum. So, again, if the conceptual explanation was lacking, it was frustrating to connect how it related to current material. 

Finally, due to how the curriculum was set up, if my mother-teacher was not also keeping up on what I was learning alongside me, she would not be able to clearly explain concepts I was struggling with or be able to constructively help me at all.

D.L.: It was tough when I didn’t understand a concept and couldn’t really ask for help. In 10th grade, I did an online school with videos from Pensacola Christian School and I liked that a bit better because they videotaped real classes of students. I was also fascinated by seeing which students were good at algebra and which ones weren’t. I had so little experience seeing other young people learn that it was like I was in a sociology class!

Christi: I could not just read and understand the math lessons. There were not enough examples, and I did not understand what the formulas were meant to be calculating.

Luke: It was very boring and took a great deal of discipline to do well. But isn’t that inherent to math?

Lina: When I was using Saxon Math, there were no video tutorials or supplemental materials, no internet lessons or accessible tutoring to help explain literally anything about math or the concepts I should have mastered over the course of my K-12 education. I don’t remember there ever being sufficient time spent on concept mastery or any way to explore ideas and problems related to mathematics. When things got too hard and I couldn’t work out the answers on my own, I could look at the homework key. It didn’t help me learn anything about math or why those were the correct answers. But it helped me get my homework done and graduate high school—knowing essentially nothing beyond basic arithmetic!

Tim: I remember feeling like I couldn’t grasp any of it, and my mom expected me to be self-taught with the book. This ultimately came to a head with me in tears saying I wasn’t learning anything and wanted to stop homeschooling.

Emily: At the time, I recall wishing that Saxon would have had some kind of video teaching component, as sometimes my mom’s explanations didn’t click for me and the textbooks felt a bit dry.

Greta: I took math in college and was shocked when my professor was eager to meet with me to help me learn how to complete problems. More surprised still was I to find that I had a gift for math when I was given a modicum of support. When I had someone who was willing to help me understand why and how we arrived at a solution to a problem, my brain could take off. Saxon taught me I was stupid. Community college math professors taught me I was actually good at math. Sometimes I grieve for the younger version of me who spent time, in spiritual language, telling herself what a failure she was because she couldn’t look at a problem and speedily grasp its significance without asking questions of a live person.

Lauren: I literally didn’t learn Algebra for real until I took a pre-math college class at 21. So, I have deep hate for Saxon, to be honest.

Anna 1: It was too difficult and I couldn’t teach myself the math. The explanations only showed basic, non-problematic math questions, but the tests were more complicated.

Anna 2: I found the books entirely inadequate as a student who struggled with mathematics. The explanations for new concepts were incredibly sparse and felt so disconnected from a young person’s point of view. In spite of having very high standard testing scores in all other subjects, including science, I had to pass remedial algebra as a freshman in order  to remain in college since I tested so poorly in math. 

Saxon also failed to spark my interest or imagination in any way regarding what mathematics is used for in the real world. I think this element is so important—and honestly should be a central advantage of homeschooling. Most of my other subjects and curricula at least attempted to do this. Saxon Math just felt lazy, to be honest. Thankfully, after nearly failing 3 years of algebra, we moved on to other resources that taught math concepts in more thoughtful, engaging ways.

Jael: While it was nice to go at my own pace, it was hard to not get any feedback from teachers or peers. I felt sort of like I was “flying blind” at times.

Lana: I definitely hit a brick wall where I couldn’t go any further on understanding a concept. It didn’t seem like there was a way around it. The easier concepts were very easy to grasp, and the harder ones much harder. It made me wonder if there were conceptual linking steps missing. Then again, it’s pretty unreasonable to expect a set of textbooks to completely replace human interaction in the learning process.

What would you tell a homeschooling parent today who is considering Saxon Math for their child’s education?

Wyn: Their children will hate math after going through Saxon. Every homeschooler I knew growing up hated Saxon—even the ones who were very good at Math. The textbooks were boring and poorly written.

William: I have complicated feelings about whether homeschooling is a good idea in general. Leaving that aside, if a person feels competent to teach a child at a specific grade or grades (a huge if, and pawning that responsibility off on video teachers isn’t a real answer), I think it comes down more to the parent being an actual teacher for the subject than just giving a child the lesson and letting them have at it. There are many concepts and mechanics in math that, while logical, are not always obvious or clear. Having a teacher who knows the subject well makes a huge difference. My son is excelling in math in public school, and much of that is because he loves it—because his teachers are able to explain concepts well to him when he doesn’t get it.

Brad: We tried Saxon with our kids but ended up going with a curriculum that includes recorded lectures, which has been very helpful. At least in my case, Saxon was a great curriculum for someone who really enjoyed math and liked it being explained conceptually. But in the cases where something doesn’t click right away, it doesn’t (or didn’t at the time) offer additional ways to understand.

Bethany: Make sure there’s lots of support in place and that you have tutors or other connections for your kid. Like, unless you are actually qualified to teach math, especially once you get past the basics, find someone who is!

Isaac: Based on my experience with it as a homeschooled child and then taking math in college (and math finally coming alive), I would advise homeschooling parents to find other material.

D.L.: I find it really odd that homeschooling parents pride themselves on using “tough” math curriculum and then the majority of people I know had parents who literally didn’t teach them anything and expected the books to do all the teaching for them. It seems to be a terrible combination…

I feel like Saxon Math was the ultimate bragging right for parents in the homeschool community and it pisses me off. It gave parents the cover of teaching their children when in reality it set kids up for a really frustrating and demoralizing experience.

Christi: My brother excelled using Saxon, but my sister and I did not. I personally had a very hard time investing time and effort into teaching myself something that my parents spent no time or effort in teaching me. My sister and I both ended up in remedial math courses in college after years of feeling like we were bad students who did not have a head for math. However, once we were in a classroom setting, both my sister and I did just fine with math. It was not that we were bad at it, just that we had not been adequately taught…

For many students, books are not replacements for teachers. Expect to have to teach your children math. If that intimidates you, hire a tutor. And if your kid hates Saxon, try a different curriculum!

Luke: It worked for me. I went to Georgia Tech for college and was ahead of my peers in math when I arrived.

Lina: I would absolutely tell them that, if they don’t personally have a mastery of math, teaching math, and genuine interest in math, they should not use the Saxon curriculum alone to “teach” their children math. I ended up having to take remedial math at the community college level for 2 years before finally advancing to college algebra—but withdrew from college algebra twice before finally transferring to a private institution that did not require the math sequence. Eventually, I had to take statistics to satisfy my major requirements. But I had none of the foundational math knowledge required for that course. Even as a social science major, my lack of foundation in basic math haunted me throughout college and grad school.

Tim: I feel like engaged instruction is critical—probably as important or more important than the curriculum. My homeschool experience was self-directed and really set me back. For several years, I thought I was incapable of understanding math. But in college, graduate school, and in my daily career, I have come to excel at math and realize now that I had the capacity all along. My instruction was just lacking.

Emily: While I had a good experience with Saxon Math and feel that it prepared me well for college-level mathematics, there are likely a variety of experiences out there. Read up on, and consider, a variety of homeschooled students’ experiences with Saxon Math. Then try and find a curriculum that is the best fit for your child’s needs.

Greta: Saxon is sold as the math program that will propel homeschoolers to stellar SAT math scores. The reality is that it creates children who are deeply aware that they are not enough solely because they need a live, gracious, patient person who understands math instruction, to help them grasp concepts. Saxon has success stories, but those are stories of kids who can intuit math on their own. While such kids absolutely exist and I’m honored to know some of them, they do not represent the majority of students. Students need instructors, not technical manuals in the disguise of homeschool math programs.

Lauren: If you don’t know what you’re doing, get them with someone who does. I literally learned via an online class with access to tutors. There are so many online resources and opportunities for students. You don’t need Saxon; you need expertise.

Anna 1: You have to teach your child. Do not just give them the teacher book and expect them to come to you when they have questions. Get a math tutor if you don’t feel confident about teaching. I don’t recommend Saxon Math.

Anna 2: I think Saxon Math is generally a waste of time. It would be best used as a review workbook over the summer and not a core math curriculum. If your student lacks confidence in math, as I did, the Saxon books are especially discouraging and will likely make their insecurities worse. Look for curricula whose explanations and methods invest in the student, attempt to spark their interest, and provide enough material to help them fully grasp new concepts.

Jael: I think Saxon can be great for teaching but I’d urge parents to sit down with their kids to help them learn or get a tutor. The whole verbal/auditory component is really lost when you’re teaching yourself and it can be very discouraging.

Lana: The repetition and workbook style may work for some kids’ learning needs. However, it cannot replace actual instruction from a human. And it may not work for all kids’ learning styles.